This is in reply to the last anon about why jokes about men are not sexist. The difference between making a kitchen joke about women and making a joke about men being immature is the fact that noone truly believes all men are immature But there are a lot of people who actually believe women belong in the kitchen. So making sexist jokes about women is truly harmful as the thing that the joke is implying has been used to oppress women. A man's level of maturity has never been used to oppress them
Re Men not being the victims of sexism, and how it is how the term is defined, Your example of men not doing housework is not the only possible sexism with regard to men and society. If the joke is instead,"what is the difference between men and bonds? Bonds Mature", your argument fails. You cannot say they are not the targets of sexism then, or that it somehow reinforces a patriarchal form. Immature men are not knowledgeable or powerful or decision makers as the patriarchal form would have it.
I saw a great thing about men and women - jokes like that are targeted at “men” while sexist jokes are frequently against individual women.
Immature men still have power, even over mature women.
so i've been silently following for awhile, not that i agree with either side because i've actually never thought about that much, but it has got me thinking (which i guess is good?). in the side bar y'all say ads target men and woman the makes them look like sexual objects or stupid i guess i was just wondering if y'all don't think men are actually being shown as stupid or sexual objects.
Men are occasionally portrayed as sexual objects in adverts targeted at women, usually for something like perfume, or diet sodas. It’s nowhere near as prolific as the objectification of women, mind. If a man isn’t being terrible at household chores, he’s usually being presented as a power fantasy (see: literally every Axe/Lynx commercial ever made).
It’s similar to comic books. People usually try to combat the argument that women are presented almost exclusively as sexual objects in comics by pointing to the muscular build of most male characters. The key difference is that female comic book characters are designed - usually by men - to look fuckable, while female characters exist as a power fantasy (Shortpacked! demonstrated this perfectly last year).
(White) men are not systematically oppressed or ignored in our society. I don't personally believe that the concept of sexism against men makes sense, only prejudice. (Because men have privilege and benefit from sexism) Just like racism against white people doesn't make sense.
Exactly. You can’t say “Gender roles are bullshit” and dismiss the notion that it’s about dominance and privilege. If it weren’t about dominance, if the privilege didn’t exist, then nor would the sexism. They’re all part of the same terrible machinery.
Gender roles are bullshit, we agree on such. However, now the argument that "woman don't fix cars" is a sexist statement is no longer valid. There is no dominance in that sentence, "men don't do housework" is the same principle. Saying men cannot be victims of sexism is on the same level of saying that certain races of human beings cannot be victims of racism. Double standards are what causes these rifts in society to grow.
Firstly, some Racism 101 - you can’t be racist against white people in a society that views white as the norm. Similarly, you cannot be sexist against men in a society that views men as more important than women. The fact that America is still, in 2012, locked in debates about what constitutes “legitimate rape”, and how certain parties want to ban birth control and abortion seems pretty indicative of what sort of society we’re living in today.
The assumption that women don’t fix cars, work on computers or do sciency stuff because they’re not smart enough, and that men don’t do housework because that’s what women are for, is entirely about dominance. That’s what gender roles are all about, in the end. It’s about one gender keeping the other under their thumb, and men have been doing exactly that to women for the majority of history.
Men cannot be the direct victims of sexism. Chances are they never will be. I won’t say there isn’t prejudice against men, because that definitely exists, but so long as men hold the power there will never be sexism against them.
"When someone makes a “men can’t do housework” joke, it’s not a sexist joke about men." So this statement right here, is in fact sexist. Because as you just stated "There is nothing men and women are “for”". I do not deny that women are subjected more to sexism, but the definition of sexism is stereotyping and discrimination based on sex, though it is used to apply to women more than men. No where does it say "just woman." To say sexism only affects woman is ridiculous.
Have you seen the new advert for Snickers? It's set in male changing rooms and there is a a 'nagging' lady who then gets told to eat a snickers, then turns back into a man. The slogan is get some nuts! ...
I don’t mind the ones where the line is “you’re not you when you’re hungry” - the first ones were of 20somethings acting like divas - Liza Minelli, Aretha Franklin - not sexist, especially since others followed with well known male actors.
Regarding that last ask, that idea that car repair is “Men’s Work” stems from the idea that women are too weak, feeble and simple-minded to wrap their heads around the inside of an engine. Which, by the way, is the same reason boys get chemistry and geology sets from their grandparents at Christmas, while girls get dolls and toy ironing boards.
If Your Product Were Any Good, You Wouldn't Need Sexism To Sell It
Sometimes ads target men. Sometimes they target women. But every time, all the time, they do so in a manner which portrays the other gender as stupid. Or as little more than sexual objects. Or as people who exist purely to look after their partners. This ends now.
If you've seen some sexist marketing (and if you've been outside, online, or watched TV the chances are pretty damned high) then forward a link, screenshot, or video to email@example.com.