so i've been silently following for awhile, not that i agree with either side because i've actually never thought about that much, but it has got me thinking (which i guess is good?). in the side bar y'all say ads target men and woman the makes them look like sexual objects or stupid i guess i was just wondering if y'all don't think men are actually being shown as stupid or sexual objects.
Men are occasionally portrayed as sexual objects in adverts targeted at women, usually for something like perfume, or diet sodas. It’s nowhere near as prolific as the objectification of women, mind. If a man isn’t being terrible at household chores, he’s usually being presented as a power fantasy (see: literally every Axe/Lynx commercial ever made).
It’s similar to comic books. People usually try to combat the argument that women are presented almost exclusively as sexual objects in comics by pointing to the muscular build of most male characters. The key difference is that female comic book characters are designed - usually by men - to look fuckable, while female characters exist as a power fantasy (Shortpacked! demonstrated this perfectly last year).
Anyone else remember when we used to post sexist ads on this blog?
Those were the days.
(White) men are not systematically oppressed or ignored in our society. I don't personally believe that the concept of sexism against men makes sense, only prejudice. (Because men have privilege and benefit from sexism) Just like racism against white people doesn't make sense.
Exactly. You can’t say “Gender roles are bullshit” and dismiss the notion that it’s about dominance and privilege. If it weren’t about dominance, if the privilege didn’t exist, then nor would the sexism. They’re all part of the same terrible machinery.
Gender roles are bullshit, we agree on such. However, now the argument that "woman don't fix cars" is a sexist statement is no longer valid. There is no dominance in that sentence, "men don't do housework" is the same principle. Saying men cannot be victims of sexism is on the same level of saying that certain races of human beings cannot be victims of racism. Double standards are what causes these rifts in society to grow.
Firstly, some Racism 101 - you can’t be racist against white people in a society that views white as the norm. Similarly, you cannot be sexist against men in a society that views men as more important than women. The fact that America is still, in 2012, locked in debates about what constitutes “legitimate rape”, and how certain parties want to ban birth control and abortion seems pretty indicative of what sort of society we’re living in today.
The assumption that women don’t fix cars, work on computers or do sciency stuff because they’re not smart enough, and that men don’t do housework because that’s what women are for, is entirely about dominance. That’s what gender roles are all about, in the end. It’s about one gender keeping the other under their thumb, and men have been doing exactly that to women for the majority of history.
Men cannot be the direct victims of sexism. Chances are they never will be. I won’t say there isn’t prejudice against men, because that definitely exists, but so long as men hold the power there will never be sexism against them.
"When someone makes a “men can’t do housework” joke, it’s not a sexist joke about men." So this statement right here, is in fact sexist. Because as you just stated "There is nothing men and women are “for”". I do not deny that women are subjected more to sexism, but the definition of sexism is stereotyping and discrimination based on sex, though it is used to apply to women more than men. No where does it say "just woman." To say sexism only affects woman is ridiculous.
The dictionary definition of sexism is not what sexism is in the real world - sexism involves power and (cis) men have power.
When I said there’s nothing men and women are “for” I mean gender essentialism is bullshit.
Have you seen the new advert for Snickers? It's set in male changing rooms and there is a a 'nagging' lady who then gets told to eat a snickers, then turns back into a man. The slogan is get some nuts! ...
I don’t mind the ones where the line is “you’re not you when you’re hungry” - the first ones were of 20somethings acting like divas - Liza Minelli, Aretha Franklin - not sexist, especially since others followed with well known male actors.
But that is ugh
Regarding that last ask, that idea that car repair is “Men’s Work” stems from the idea that women are too weak, feeble and simple-minded to wrap their heads around the inside of an engine. Which, by the way, is the same reason boys get chemistry and geology sets from their grandparents at Christmas, while girls get dolls and toy ironing boards.
So things that say "Women don't fix cars" or "Women don't run companies" is also not sexist. Because those are things that men are for.
I’m sorry, I don’t fully understand your message.
Saying “Women don’t fix cars” is sexist. There is nothing men and women are “for”.
I think the last anon means a link where people can just read the submissions people have made. If you've tagged them as submission then they can just go to /tagged/submission
Ah yes. They’re usually auto-tagged as such. I’ll try to remember to add a link to the sidebar tomorrow.
Hey, it'd be cool if you had a link for just submissions. Because I like the meaty content, and hate mail can get exhausting. (thisiswhiteprivilege sets it up nicely)
That’s odd, I thought we did. It’s not particularly well-marked, but it’s there.
Maybe the anons are getting confused by what sexism actually is. Because sexism is institutional, and because the world we live in is patriarchal, sexism affects women because they are the ones degraded by the patriarchal system, not men. Although men can suffer from other types of discrimination and negative stereotyping, they don't suffer from sexism because discrimination and stereotypes are not institutional in the same way.
This neatly sums it up. Thanks, Anonymous. Thanonymous.
So you don't believe men can be victims of sexism?
That depends on how you wish to define victims. They are not the targets of sexism. When someone makes a “men can’t do housework” joke, it’s not a sexist joke about men but rather a reinforcement of the patriarchal (and, obviously, sexist) idea that men don’t do housework because that’s what women are for.